For a little over 4 full years I worked at a comedy club. 18 months was during a pandemic, but everything I'm sharing with you today is still relevant to how most "B" Clubs and "C" Clubs work. "A" Clubs would be where only the top comics perform, and the clubs have a world-wide brand. The Improv. The Comedy Store. The Laugh Factory. In middle America, Denver Comedy Works (CO), Wiseguys (UT, NV), The Comedy Cellar (NY, NV) and Zanies in Illinois have all built reputations as the premier destinations for top talent to perform. If you can make it there, as a paid regular or headliner, you can make it anywhere. "B" Clubs are much more accessible. Places that rely on showcases with newer comics, but they still get the big names occasionally because they have 150-250 seats. "C" Clubs are either very new or rely only on young and rising talent, with usually only 50-100 seats available for audiences. It's important to understand the ABC's of comedy clubs because if you are expecting a B or C Club to act like an A Club, you're going to be greatly disappointed, as their goals are different. What I want to do is breakdown the way B and C Clubs view upcoming comics and the business as a whole. They might be frustrating and make you feel like you aren't progressing or even needed, but that's just their MO (mode of operating). They are usually more worried about making rent and payroll than paying comics. They usually are thinking about food menus instead of booking the week's lineups. They are thinking less like a cornerstone of comedy and more like the small business they are. In my experience (over 40 jobs overlapping in the last 30 years of employment from 13-42) I can tell you that most small business (revenue ranging from $1 million to $5 million with 50-100 employees) aren't very efficient. The owners are pretty greedy and incompetent, rarely listen to advice, and act like they know everything about business. So, when you ask "Why is this club doing this to me?" keep in mind they don't know either. They are acting from a place of desperation. When I worked at Viacom, Costco, and Amgen, billion dollar companies, they had their ducks lined up in a row. They had systems, protocols, and hierarchies that kept workflows efficient. Usually there were unions or contracts or other forms of accountability to maintain operational excellence. Uncle Haha's Comedy Club in a street mall is not one of those places. So, let's look at the misconceptions and interpretations to why the local club you hate but beg to book you behaves the way it does. No One "Hates" or "Forgot" About You First off, I'll play nice. Uncle Haha's Comedy Club doesn't hate or forget you. As someone who once had access to the databases, there are over 20,000 comics in the databases. Even smaller C Clubs use Excel spreadsheets with thousands of names. But keep in mind, there are only so many shows and so many spots and the squeaky wheels get the grease. Are you doing what they asked? Sending in avails? Showing up to auditions? Hanging out time to time? I know you feel like they are going out of their way to ignore you. They aren't. Because I know for a fact lineups are partially copied and pasted into other lineups. You know why? Because it's easier. And because those lineups had good numbers. They don't hate you or forgot about you. You just didn't do what their simple little system requires. Unfortunately, their system probably doesn't work out well with your schedule or ego. I've been there. "Why didn't they think of me for that?" Because the people they did think about were in their face at the time of the decision. I used to pick students to run open mics and host shows at Flappers all the time. Because the booker would ask, who is a good student? The ones I was teaching, who fit the mold, got the gig. I'm sure there were other comics I knew, but the club wanted a student. Decisions are rarely made with you in mind to hurt you. If you don't like the process of Uncle Haha's, then that's the key to come back when you reached the level they want you at to get the gigs you think you deserve. The Real Reason Pay is Little to Nothing Everyone wants to know why they don't get paid for their show. I have a general rule. If I book you over 10 minutes on a show, I pay you. If I'm asking you to host, I pay you. If it's a 5-10 minute set, you're welcome. I don't care if the show sells tickets or not. Your 5-10 minutes could have easily been spread out amongst the other comics, especially if no come came to watch you do comedy. B and C Clubs have waitstaff, cooks, managers, sound techs, and other positions to pay first, by law. Food sales cannot always cover that. "A" Clubs have the above costs too, but when Trevor Wallace and Tom Segura are selling out every weekend, at $25-$100 tickets, they can afford to pay the middle and opener. In fact, most comics only make maybe $15-$100 at an A Club showcase night. Unless they're headlining The Comedy Store, they aren't taking the night's revenue. If you feel like you're worth $25-$200+ a show, then run a show, sell to your fan base, collect the money, and dish out the money to who you find worthy of pay. If you don't like their business model, then don't ask to be a part of it. This is like applying for a volunteer job and then complaining you didn't get paid. "Papering the Room" is the Best Idea They Have The other reason you can't feel disrespected by the club's lack of generosity is because they might not have made any money to actually pay the comics. In stand up, most shows are what we call "papering the room" with "free" tickets. There are telemarketers and newsletters offering free tickets to patrons because deep down they know the combined costs of their lineups plus two item minimums aren't worth the deal. People vote with their wallets, and unless the comics on stage are worth $25 plus dinner, people need something comped. And once they don't pay, they'll never pay again - unless it's Fluffy or Kevin Hart. Sadly, B and C Club's best idea is to just comp the seats. They don't want to run community outreach marketing programs, membership programs, generate lineups that have a real through-line, pay for top talent, or pay for ads. They want the newbies to bring and the staff to call previous guests (YOUR FRIENDS!) to come back. When I ran Flappers University, my most successful program was the FU+ Pass. For $50 a year you got a locked in rate for classes and free workshops. This annual subscription model is how AMC and Netflix are building regular customers, and super markets and clothing store's loyalty card programs produce discounts that inspire return business. They aren't giving away "free" stuff hoping you'll buy when you walk in. The AMC Stubbs program paid for the upgraded seats you enjoy now. If you want to know how effective the FU+ Pass was, when I walked away, ownership stopped it immediately and raised prices, because that's all they know how to do Clubs need to update their marketing, but that costs money, and when they give away comedy, they won't give money to you. They Hope You'll Become Famous And Help Them Down the Road Want to hear something really weird? They actually hope you become famous. B and C Clubs hope you'll go viral, become Trevor Wallace, and come back and give them a couple sold out weekends. So they are rooting for you, but for purely capitalistic reasons. They don't really care about your late night set or helping you produce your special at an affordable rate. They want you to think about how they booked you when you just started out, so when you break out you'll come back and they can claim they made you famous. But somewhere in between they kind of forgot to maintain the relationship properly. If you only knew how many of the top comics in the country right now started at the Los Angeles based B and C Clubs, asked for spots, were treated like everyone else, and eventually told those clubs to eat dirt. No one wants to feel used and disrespected, but understand, these bookers don't really know talent the way A Clubs do. Mitzi Shore and Bud Friedman saw potential and helped those comics get TV spots and then those comics helped them in return. These B and C Clubs aren't into fostering comics and building them. Just like they wanted you to bring 5 friends when starting out, they want to you bring your 500 fans down the road. They want all the benefit and none of the journey, like a college that doesn't get you a job upon graduation but wants you to donate money once you're a doctor. Men Ask For More Than Women Do Here's the basic difference between male and female comics when it comes to bookings. Men ask for more spots than woman do. So male comics deal with "active rejection" and women deal with "passive rejection." Active rejection is when you ask for a spot and hear nothing or a "no." Passive rejection is when you do nothing but see others succeed, so you take it personal. At the headliner level, there are just more men than women. We know that. At the showcase levels below, the playing field can be a bit more even. But when I attended auditions at Flappers, I can tell you there are just more men asking for spots. I could go into the nature v. nurture theories about how men see bookings as more competitive game with a clear finish line and women see it as the responsibility of the booker to ask her when she's free, as a type of comedy courtship, but I digress. Just keep in mind that men live in a constant state of active rejection. Hearing a "no" is regular life for them. Women have not been trained by society (through an awful double standard) to ask for what they want. Go watch Season 3 of Hacks to see that validated. If you aren't asking B and C Clubs for spots, you're just not going to get them. But, ladies, if you ask, I know for a fact smaller clubs want to support women. Especially in the beginning of their careers. There are clearly more problematic issues at the headlining levels, and the A Clubs in Los Angeles have been called out for lack of diversity. But I still stand by my above statement, that if you are a woman (biological or trans) you will get more spots if you put yourself in front of bookers at auditions and just tell them you want to host. Are there other alternative venue shows with male dominant lineups? Yes. Is there sexism and bro-culture? Of course. But I promise you. If you have a little bit of talent, show up to the auditions on time, and just ask, you'll get more spots. But you have to ask. That's the catch. It's a Business - Especially When Rent is Due Before you email me with all your hot takes on how the club did X, Y, or Z to you and your buddies, and I know they did, just remember that they're running a business, not a charity or after-school program. They owe you nothing but the deals you make with them. You offer to work for free, they aren't going to offer to pay you until you ask. Most A Clubs own the land they're using, whereas the B and C Clubs in shopping malls are paying ever increasing rent. They have to pay a small army of employees and cover all the other expenses like leaky pipes and broken toilets. A Clubs book 50-60 comics a year, and B and C Clubs books hundreds in showcases, bringers, and headliner sets with numerous guest drop-ins. They are overwhelmed and underqualified to run the well-oiled machine you hope they'll be. Final Thoughts Most comics quit because they feel like they're being used or forgotten by smaller clubs. After "bringing" for a year or so, they thought they built a relationship, only to realize they hadn't. It's depressing. I've been there. But before you throw the baby out of comedy bathwater, ask yourself if what you were expecting is what was promised. Sure, "the right thing" to do would be to remember you and pay you and ask what your needs are, but you're asking a group of people who can barely survive week to week to care about you. Anyone who's ever been in a relationship with a broke person knows, they aren't thinking about your birthday or Christmas when they can't afford their own rent. I'm not saying you can't feel used and cheated, but what I am saying is consider the source. It's not fair to yell at a turnip for not being an orange. And when there's little to no juice in them, don't waste your time trying to squeeze out of them what you thought they owed you which isn't there at all.
3 Comments
George Robbins
6/16/2024 07:10:33 pm
I’m not a comedian/comic, but I find your thoughts very interesting and worthwhile. You seem to want to provide help and advice to a misunderstood industry. Good on ya.
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Stage time is not a right its a privilege, the club owner owes you nothing. What will make you stand out to a booker/owner. Have you helped market there club in exchange for stage time? Did you pass out flyers? Market on your social media (even when your not performing)? Did you ask to arrange an open mic, showcase on a off night? Have you volunteer to work the door, seat customers, etc.? Bottom line its not how much you write, its not how much stage time you get, its about how many seats that you can help put in the seats, because at the end of the day it is a business. Bobby Collins once said to me, be nice too everyone because you never know who is going to own the cvlub tomorrow...
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Ruth Sowby
6/25/2024 02:22:08 pm
Everyone who thinks they're funny and wants to be on a stage should read this.
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Paul Douglas Moomjean Blog's About What's on His MindBlogging allows for me to rant when there is no stage in the moment to talk about what's important and/or funny to me. Archives
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